The Future of Spirituality on YouTube
Posted September 3rd, 2007 by Corey W. deVos
The Catholic theologian Karl Rahner famously said "the Christian of tomorrow will be a mystic, or not a Christian at all." Few people have impacted Christianity in this regard as has Fr. Thomas Keating. A Cistercian monk from St. Benedict's Monastery in Snowmass, Colorado, Fr. Thomas has spent a lifetime in deep Christian practice, and in sharing the fruits of this contemplation with countless others. We were enormously blessed to host a dialogue with Fr. Thomas and Ken Wilber in April of 2006. And we're delighted to share with you some of those beautiful moments--in this video, Ken presents some of the foundational concepts of Integral spirituality.
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Ken's great, but it would be
Ken's great, but it would be nice to hear from Fr. Thomas in this video.
Ken and Fr. Thomas Keating
It would have added greatly to this clip if Fr Thomas was to be heard as well. I found the clip extremely " hopefilled " Ken Wilber is just brilliant.
Response to September 13 Wilber presentation
Ken speaks with great clarity about the different stages of spiritual development. I deeply appreciate his wisdom and perception of reality and spirituality.
Why did you have Fr. Keating on the video? It would have been helpful to me to hear both of them in dialogue if both of them appear on the screen.
If you are subscribed, a
If you are subscribed, a second video from this session with Father Keating exists, where he speaks. Hope this link works...
http://isc.integralinstitute.org//public/library/FlashStream.aspx?Resour...
Guests as Ken's wallpaper
When we all progress along the path of spiritual development as far as kenny boy, will we all take as much pleasure in our own cleverness and enjoy talking at people quite so much? "It's hard to get the conversation going...." Te he.
I thought this was supposed
I thought this was supposed to be a dialouge. The poor guy is just looking at Wilber completely bored.
what an ego...!
Mr. Ken Wilber: I respectfully bring to your attention that you are being completely dominated by your ego. Your little egoic mind has weaved a superstructure, an ivory tower, with all the same features (and dangers) of the ones built by organized religion, politics, etc...you are full of big words and fancy conceptualizations, very superficial, yet no substance...not even enough to acknowledge your guest. What a demonstration of ego in control...
Namaste...really !!
This is just one clip from
This is just one clip from an entire series on Integral Spiritual Center, from an event that was nearly 4 hours long. This is just a small piece of that presentation that we thought we would share with the world for free, as it is a wonderful synopsis of Ken's latest thinking around the future of spirituality on this planet.
In reality, Father Thomas Keating was not only acknowledged, he was downright exalted, by both Ken as well as the rest of the audience. We simply didn't post the introductions. While i can't expect you to actually know that, let's give Ken just a little benefit of the doubt--if you've ever heard any of the interviews on Integral Naked or even ISC, you would know how personable and gracious of a host he actually is.
Just so everyone knows, we will post a follow-up video from the series to YouTube soon, which will have more emphasis on FTK's perspective.
Perfect Example of Chaos that is not Divine
Thanks Corey for clearing that up. I suppose it would have been best to explain before the video was put out. However, I usually watch for patterns before making such quick judgements. Would not have judged Ken Wilber by one talk esp. when what is said is worth pondering. I am also very familiar with KW and cannot be sure about what I just said. And also with Father Keating.. Still, I felt slight influence after reading some of the criticism. It was very slight with mostly doubt or maybe it was a feeling of another kind-wanting it to be taken care of. I did not have to stay with the feeling very long since Corey came to the rescue and explained why KW did all the talking. So the feelin was not explored.
My point is that this is the "real world" for me so much of the time. A total
misunderstanding of something I have said or done without being ask any
questions.I want to finish this and am tempted not to be-
cause of this Poll covering the page. That is annoying.
I also hear others doing this to each other and in my family- a
large one- mixing things up all the time. Without asking
questions or watching patterns for awhile. It causes a ton
ofl little toxic situations that are usually subtle and sometimes
acknowledged by no-one. I keep reminding my kids and grand
children that this is what causes wars. It is not nobility on
my part. It is the best way to take care of myself or someone
who seems to be the scapegoat of the week. And I feel sure
that the Poll covering the page I write on is an error and not
someone's attempt to sabatage me or make me have a
bad day. And I can appreciate that all the glitches are
not worked out yet. And there may be something that
I need to do that I do not understand. So it is not about
anybody!!! It is just interesting to note that so many times,
the feeling I get is some just wait for the big mistakes and
then pounce. I find that attitude annoying. To say the least.
Without Patterns. Is there some other way that I might interpret
these "pounces"? Am I missing something for the reason -they
are written with a bit of poision within? Pattye
Pattye, your post was so
Pattye, your post was so honest and refreshing in its self awareness that i was inspired to write and offer my 'for what it is worth' two cents. you've described something i notice in myself and am increasingly mindful of as a result of my own integral practice and study of KW.
My observation is this. For people with wide access to an inclusive 'territory' (i.e. second tier developmental perspective) the good news is 'we see' and the bad news is 'we see'. prior to the cultivation and stabilizatoin of skillful means of relating and processing (i.e. pause before pouncing) we are so energized by our highly functioning 'pattern recognition' (which is KWs brilliance) that we are ensnared (ego) and seeing it in others (shadow) our egoic reaction is to pounce.
The cool part is that you are noticing the annoyance and can find that part in you that does the same thing - at least that is what i have been working on and it has helped. i find in addition to ILP kit or other daily practice, having an integral coach - someone who really knows how to call me on my stuff - is really excellerating for me. anyway, i wanted to reach out and share because what you said is exactly what i've been noticing and as they say, it's all good. KB
Sale of House
Thanks Kathryn: For shining your light on the subject.. IT is very supportive to be heard and helpful to know that we want to own all the ways we move through this Life or to know when we are stuck. I WANT TO WRITE MORE LATER. Need to tend to this computer.
Acting Up!!! Why I haven't written sooner. Later Pattye
Just think, if you were free
Just think, if you were free of ego you wouldn't have even bothered to comment.
No, I'm not free of ego either. Have to wait for death before that occurs as a 100% reality.
Thank you!
I'm grateful to you for having shared this video. It feels so good to hear it .
As a non-suscriber, I don't have access to the second part of this dialogue. Therefore I'm really looking forward to see the follow-up on YouTube.
Would you be willing to post the YouTube link, once it's uploaded?
Try this link.
Try this link.
http://www.holons-news.com/
for more of the dialogue.
KW & Thomas Keating DIALOGUE
Has Ken forgotten the meaning of dialogue?
Yes, this clip was a bit of
Yes, this clip was a bit of a monologue, just to tee up the context of the discussion. Watch part 2 for more interaction: http://holons-news.com/node/71
All growth is a path out of suffering!
This video was very useful in clarifying some things. I want to point out though that where Ken says exoteric religion has been responsible for huge amounts of human suffering, it has also been responsible for a lot of good. Surely any time a person moves from totally unprincipled living to the rules imposed by an organized religion, that does improve his life and move him away from suffering. And if later on this person grows to a point where he no longer needs the rules of an organized religion to govern his life, then discarding that religion would also be a path out of suffering. If he later came to recognize his own spirituality then that would be even further growth out of suffering. It may be so long since Ken was in any of the lower stages that he does not recognize that all growth is a move away from suffering. It is all relative to the level at which the person exists.
I am trying to write a blog (BELIEFSTAGESANDGROWTH.COM,) and eventually a book, to bring the concept of spiritual growth down to the less sophisticated reader by means of real life stories of people growing through the stages. Today I decided to link to this video - hoping my readers can get a glimpse of the understanding Ken brings to this subject.
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